Culture Is Destiny: A Conversation With Lee Kuan Yew
Posted on Jun 15th, 2008
by
Albert
This is a conversation Fareed Zakaria did with Singapore founder Lee Kuan Yew. Its from 1994, but as informative, great and eye opening as in 1994.
It describes dynamics of developing countries. Not only for South East Asia. Indeed, I see Mr. Lee Kuan Yew as one of the greatest global top leaders too. Inspite of leading only this small place in space in time.
Lee Kuan Yes is revealing most excellent insights into the nature of stratified democracy around the globe. i know that Dr. Don Beck was visiting Singapore for 20 years now and praised its understanding of these complexities too.
My personal interest in the Singapore was awkened 4 years ago when I lived and worked in Dubai. This region is rapidly devloping too and only for 10 years in the race while Singapore already has 5 decades of fast growth . Its most fascinating for me to see how Dubai and the GCC region is looking in a bi-focal way simutaneously to India, China and models in South East Asia as to Europe and North America.
However, basically in economic terms right now. Missing the crucial fact that its about the deep cultural codes in which economy is embedded...
This interview, and actual ones from this year 2008 (linked below this conversation) shows exactly what the potential of integral and integrated perspectives for devloping areas are and will be. Especially Spiral Dynamics integral. its not perceived by 95 out of 100 integrally inspired and informed people right now.
I am sure, this will change:):) and its relvance is utterly increasing . From week to week, From month to month....
Culture is Destiny: A conversation with Lee Kuan Yew
By Fareed Zakaria
MEETING THE MINISTER
"ONE OF THE ASYMMETRIES of history," wrote Henry Kissinger of Singapore's patriarch Lee Kuan Yew, "is the lack of correspondence between the abilities of some leaders and the power of their countries." Kissinger's one time boss, Richard Nixon, was even more flattering. He speculated that, had Lee lived in another time and another place, he might have "attained the world stature of a Churchill, a Disraeli, or a Gladstone." This tag line of a big man on a small stage has been attached to Lee since the 1970s. Today, however, his stage does not look quite so small. Singapore's per capita GNP is now higher than that of its erstwhile colonizer, Great Britain. It has the world's busiest port, is the third-largest oil refiner and a major center of global manufacturing and service industries. And this move from poverty to plenty has taken place within one generation. In 1965 Singapore ranked economically with Chile, Argentina and Mexico; today its per capita GNP is four or five times theirs.
Lee managed this miraculous transformation in Singapore's economy while maintaining tight political control over the country; Singapore's government can best be described as a "soft" authoritarian regime, and at times it has not been so soft. He was prime minister of Singapore from its independence in 1959 (it became part of a federation with Malaysia in 1963 but was expelled in 1965) until 199o, when he allowed his deputy to succeed him. He is now "Senior Minister" and still commands enormous influence and power in the country. Since his retirement, Lee has embarked on another career of sorts as a world-class pundit, speaking his mind with impolitic frankness. And what is often on his mind is American-style democracy and its perils. He travels often to East Asian capitals from Beijing to Hanoi to Manila dispensing advice on how to achieve economic growth while retaining political stability and control. It is a formula that the governing elites of these countries are anxious to learn.
The rulers of former British colonies have been spared the embarrassment of building grandiose monuments to house their offices; they simply occupy the ones that the British built. So it is with Singapore. The president, prime minister and senior minister work out of Istana (palace), the old colonial governor's house, a gleaming white bungalow surrounded by luxuriant lawns. The interior is modern light wood paneling and leather sofas. The atmosphere is hushed. I waited in a large anteroom for the "SM," which is how everybody refers to Lee. I did not wait long. The SM was standing in the middle of a large, sparsely furnished office. He is of medium build. His once-compact physique is now slightly shrunken. Still, he does not look 70.
Lee Kuan Yew is unlike any politician I have met. There were no smiles, no jokes, no bonhomie. He looked straight at me he has an inexpressive face but an intense gaze -- shook hands and motioned toward one of the room's pale blue leather sofas (I had already been told by his press secretary on which one to sit). After 30 awkward seconds, I realized that there would be no small talk. I pressed the record button on my machine.
Read More...
Excerpts from a 2007 Interview with Lee Kuan Yew
2008 Interview of UPI with Lee Kuan Yew, Part 1
2008 Interview of UPI with Lee Kuan Yew, Part 2
Lee Kuan Yew: Articles, .. Speeches,, Interviews
It describes dynamics of developing countries. Not only for South East Asia. Indeed, I see Mr. Lee Kuan Yew as one of the greatest global top leaders too. Inspite of leading only this small place in space in time.
Lee Kuan Yes is revealing most excellent insights into the nature of stratified democracy around the globe. i know that Dr. Don Beck was visiting Singapore for 20 years now and praised its understanding of these complexities too.
My personal interest in the Singapore was awkened 4 years ago when I lived and worked in Dubai. This region is rapidly devloping too and only for 10 years in the race while Singapore already has 5 decades of fast growth . Its most fascinating for me to see how Dubai and the GCC region is looking in a bi-focal way simutaneously to India, China and models in South East Asia as to Europe and North America.
However, basically in economic terms right now. Missing the crucial fact that its about the deep cultural codes in which economy is embedded...
This interview, and actual ones from this year 2008 (linked below this conversation) shows exactly what the potential of integral and integrated perspectives for devloping areas are and will be. Especially Spiral Dynamics integral. its not perceived by 95 out of 100 integrally inspired and informed people right now.
I am sure, this will change:):) and its relvance is utterly increasing . From week to week, From month to month....
Culture is Destiny: A conversation with Lee Kuan Yew
By Fareed Zakaria
MEETING THE MINISTER
"ONE OF THE ASYMMETRIES of history," wrote Henry Kissinger of Singapore's patriarch Lee Kuan Yew, "is the lack of correspondence between the abilities of some leaders and the power of their countries." Kissinger's one time boss, Richard Nixon, was even more flattering. He speculated that, had Lee lived in another time and another place, he might have "attained the world stature of a Churchill, a Disraeli, or a Gladstone." This tag line of a big man on a small stage has been attached to Lee since the 1970s. Today, however, his stage does not look quite so small. Singapore's per capita GNP is now higher than that of its erstwhile colonizer, Great Britain. It has the world's busiest port, is the third-largest oil refiner and a major center of global manufacturing and service industries. And this move from poverty to plenty has taken place within one generation. In 1965 Singapore ranked economically with Chile, Argentina and Mexico; today its per capita GNP is four or five times theirs.
Lee managed this miraculous transformation in Singapore's economy while maintaining tight political control over the country; Singapore's government can best be described as a "soft" authoritarian regime, and at times it has not been so soft. He was prime minister of Singapore from its independence in 1959 (it became part of a federation with Malaysia in 1963 but was expelled in 1965) until 199o, when he allowed his deputy to succeed him. He is now "Senior Minister" and still commands enormous influence and power in the country. Since his retirement, Lee has embarked on another career of sorts as a world-class pundit, speaking his mind with impolitic frankness. And what is often on his mind is American-style democracy and its perils. He travels often to East Asian capitals from Beijing to Hanoi to Manila dispensing advice on how to achieve economic growth while retaining political stability and control. It is a formula that the governing elites of these countries are anxious to learn.
The rulers of former British colonies have been spared the embarrassment of building grandiose monuments to house their offices; they simply occupy the ones that the British built. So it is with Singapore. The president, prime minister and senior minister work out of Istana (palace), the old colonial governor's house, a gleaming white bungalow surrounded by luxuriant lawns. The interior is modern light wood paneling and leather sofas. The atmosphere is hushed. I waited in a large anteroom for the "SM," which is how everybody refers to Lee. I did not wait long. The SM was standing in the middle of a large, sparsely furnished office. He is of medium build. His once-compact physique is now slightly shrunken. Still, he does not look 70.
Lee Kuan Yew is unlike any politician I have met. There were no smiles, no jokes, no bonhomie. He looked straight at me he has an inexpressive face but an intense gaze -- shook hands and motioned toward one of the room's pale blue leather sofas (I had already been told by his press secretary on which one to sit). After 30 awkward seconds, I realized that there would be no small talk. I pressed the record button on my machine.
Read More...
Excerpts from a 2007 Interview with Lee Kuan Yew
2008 Interview of UPI with Lee Kuan Yew, Part 1
2008 Interview of UPI with Lee Kuan Yew, Part 2
Lee Kuan Yew: Articles, .. Speeches,, Interviews








Singapore is a wonder and LeeKwan Yew succeeded on it. Your description come more than that. Why other countries are unable to follow suite? Even the financially well to do countries. Singapore is a small island with no natural resources. Even water is supplied from nighbouring country. Hong kong also a small island.
Sanmugan….yes there is this Singapore magic. Its based, as Don Beck et al have clarified again and again on intuitive memtic understandings. Perhaps they will build a nation building think tank later to teach and instruct other regions. its important that the world uno grasso deeply understands what is going on in developing and emrging countries. From the bottom up.
Its NOT only about orange-green new mindsets. Its about shifitng the deepest tectonic plates and risking more large scale systems work. Once again Don Beck realizes it. And is pioneering it clearly. This is what he says:
“I realize that many find any effort to design and implement Change at the Large Scale to be too daunting, impossible, arrogant, and with spats of delusion, punctuated with spells of narcissism. Maybe so. I am more convinced than ever before that such efforts ride on the wings of angels. Difficult? Yes, for sure. Risky, Oh yes, one will attract many adversaries and acid spitters, from inside and outside.”
Don Beck wrote this piece some years ago to David Ignatius from Washinton Post. Simply to introduce a great journalist -with global capacity - to this complexity.
David:
Thanks for your quick reply. Maybe the following will give you some sense of what I mean.
“Spiral Dynamics” is a fancy word that describes how “value systems” emergence in people, organizations, cultures etc. as “adaptive intelligences,” calibrated with and sparked by Life Conditions. Thus far research has uncovered eight such priority systems that transcend racial, ethnic, religious, and political stigmas, stereotypes, and forms of polarization. Original research was done by the late Professor Clare W. Graves, Union College (New York) in the 50s through 70s, largely beneath the radar scope of the academic community. I was teaching at the University of North Texas in l975 when I became aware of his work, and I was truly impressed.
MacLean's magazine in Canada called his work “the theory that explains everything!” While that requires a tongue in cheek to even say, this conceptual model has an immense amount of power in it to get beneath surface level categories and issues in order to deal with the deepest dynamics at work.
We can explain clearly the differences between the so-called “red” and “blue” states; believe we can defuse the Islam threat/challenge by laying out the entire spectrum of beliefs – radical, jihadist, flamethrowers, zealots, ideologies, moderates, pragmatists, conciliators and even centralists…and show the identical forms in “Christianity,” “Zionism” etc. etc. – This makes possible the design of the first truly global 'map' of thought structures, social architecture, and life priorities that lurk beneath “the sand” in the Middle East, or even on the European continent with the myriad of mindsets that are shaping the European Union.
Based on this capacity to “see” the invisible fractals –as they are called in complexity theory – or Memetic codes – as we call them from a newly emerging concept of “memes” (the cultural codes that shape various contours or social DNA elements) – we have created such perspectives as Stratified Democracy, forms of Memetic warfare, and strategies for resolving major conflicts by working on these deep codes. These run under Tom Barnett's “map” to explain WHY different zones exist in his Pentagon analysis and, of more importance, how a new approach to “globalization” could mobilize more of the planet's stakeholders to fill in the blind spots at the White House and Pentagon.
While we have been constructing this conceptual model academically and even scientifically, South Africa afforded the text bed for the whole package since all of the eight levels of complexity that we have identified were in their pristine condition. These include (1) survivalist, (2)magical-tribal, (3) egocentric-empire-feudal-predators, (4) saintly-absolutistic-one-right-way, (5) materialistic-strategic-win:win, enterprise, secular (6) sensitive-egalitarian-humanistic-New Age (7) systemic, flexible, authentic, integral and (8) holonic, “global,” energy flows etc that exist in the land south of the Limpopo River. Once again, these are value systems WITHIN people and cultures. The real issues in South Africa were not about “race” per se; rather, racial attitudes and divides are memetic at their respective cores. So, Uncle Remus and Aunt Jemima (2), Bad, Bad Leroy Brown (3) Booker T. Washington (4) Jesse Jackson (5) Stevie Wonder (6) and Bill Cosby (7). The current controversy regarding Bill Cosby can best be understood by recognizing the underlying codes that shape the older “civil rights” bunch and this challenge from Cosby.
(New York Times editorial page represents the (6) set of value systems (except David Brown) while Fox News Network is the megaphone for the (4) and (5) mesh. You will need to decide where to put Washington Post but I have a clue or two. Don Imus from MSNBC will live/die in (3) ).
Barnett's “dysfunctional gaps” are struggling with the (1), (2), (3) and militant, blind versions of (4) codes with a myriad of dynamics in their natural habitats, fierce tribal conflicts, and egocentric War Lords that block developmental efforts, even to the point of causing people to starve, as in Zimbabwe.
The “seams” are characterized by movement into and through the (4) and (5) memetic codes. One can track them in the psychological history of Singapore, and in such “Islamic” cultures as Tunisia. Each of these codes will also have specific content manifestations. Thusly, the (4) absolutist/saintly code may embrace Islam purity, American patriotism, and Jewish cultural superiority. The possible change windows include working on Life Conditions, the specific vMemetic Codes (1) through (8), and ways those codes are expressed. The Catholic-Protestant Great Divide and holy war involves conflicting content within (4).
The “functional core” societies have stablized the (4) system in rules, institutions, interior values around morality and standards, which then blend with the (5) mindsets to generate wealth, raise all the boats, and create the middle class. (We would add the notion that the “Core” is expanding into new regions as well, especially within the (6) and (7) world views. These have produced new problems for those wishing to support this ratchet through the zones since, especially in (6), there is a basic denial that people exist and function at different levels of complexity. As more advocates of (6) begin to shift and morph into (7), new insights development with the possibility of new strategies to build the whole emergence architecture of humans.)
Thusly, the surface level clashes and warfare are actually created by these deeper level “tectonic”-like Value Systems plates that will determine the eventual outcome. Unless we learn how to deal with them directly, we could well find ourselves locked in a Islamic vs. JudeoChristian “holy war” for generations to come. Quite serious business, David. Perhaps we are now at a stage when we can think about pulling together all elements with the functional core to focus resources like laser-beams on the Gaps and Seams. I'm preparing a speech to give, hopefully, at the Values caucus in the UN in February and will lay out this initiative.
I know this is a heavy load for December and it only touches the top of the iceberg. Tom Friedman understands it intuitively; the new Senator from Illinois will “get it” for sure. I tried to explain it to George W. Bush in l991 when he was managing partner of the Texas Rangers and I was writing “sports values” columns for the Dallas Morning News – an oxymoron for sure with Jerry Jones in town – but didn't get very far. Tough for GOP-ites to get beyond (5) On several times I talked with Bill Clinton and probably nudged him toward the Center in his second term. I was invited to No 10 Downing to introduce it to Blair's “Third Way” policy unit, and have found the very best responses from the Scandinavian societies with a major project in Copenhagen. I spoke recently to the top 70 executives in the Dutch police at the Hague warning them there were about to experience major violence from the Islamic/Muslim elements in their society, who refuse to wear wooden shoes. (the actual conflict is between a fusion of (3) and (4) from Islamic worlds and the Dutch society with a (6) center of gravity with equal rights for women etc. The whole “cultural pluralism” surge is now in serious regression.
Finally, these are not types of people they are, like musical chords, systems within people. Thusly, the conflicts between elements WITHIN the Republican Party are “memetic” in nature, as are the major points of collision BETWEEN the parties, as we are about to witness during the debate on Supreme Court replacements. (The Democrat Party is in deep crisis because it is based on (3) and (6) alliances, where the social progressives need victims. Bush is cutting in to both Black and Hispanic populations as they move on this Memetic Map into the (4) and (5) zones, and want a fraction of the action, autonomy, and hope of a better life.)
Much more I could say/write. I've been about this process for 30 years. Just completed a six day presentation at the Hyatt-Crystal City, that included people from 6 different countries, and even folks from the Pentagon and large corporate entities.. I believe it will be the next great thing, David, and if you are willing to come to terms with it, you will create a huge splash. While many are fascinated by the Da Vinci code based in myth and fable, this Spiral Dynamics “code” is based on sound research and years of field-testing in some of the most difficult places on the planet. I know of no competing conceptual system that can measure up to its complexity and practical use..
You can see my essays at http://www.humanemergence.org/, and more detail at http://www.spiraldynamics.net/ – and my South African version at http://www.globalvaluesnetwork.com/
And one other reference from Dons communications :
“As many of you know I've been lauding Singapore as the very best model of national design and management that I have found anywhere on the planet. I was there 20 years ago with the Young President's Organization; then, returned, 10 years ago with the World Productivity Conference and, just recently was back in the city-state through the influence of John Petersen's Arlington Institute and his Risk Awareness-Horizontal Scanning (RAHS) project. Singapore was totally unprepared for the recent SARS virus threat so decided to do something about it by designing an early warning-surprise detection capacity at the top level of the government. This has been a long term project for John and his group and reflects what we have called a “Vital Signs Monitor.” I was one of several social scientists who were brought into make comments and suggest ways to enhance the project. By this time Spiral Dynamics had already become a major feature of the entire initiative. Obviously, in my presentation and interactions with the representative of every branch of government, I placed Singapore within the context of Spiral Dynamics with a focus on MeshWORKS Strategies because even with their extraordinary successes, they are aware that in solving some problems they have created new ones – and that this will be an ongoing process.
….
You should be able to read between the lines in the following article that was in today's (Sunday) New York Times. You will recognize the clean “ideology and pragmatism” as expressive of positive aspects of the DQ-Blue and ER-Orange value structures; but the over all design has properties of GT-Yellow in terms of the capacity to adapt to changing life conditions, and how their brain syndicate anticipates problems and seeks after resolutions.
It was a sheer joy to interact with the quality of thinking and future focus within a group of professionals who are relatively free from internal politics, cynicism, and suspicions, but express in so many ways the capacity to translate theory into action. They have a great deal to teach the rest of the world. I tried my best to get South Africans to look to Singapore for the models they needed for their own population and context , rather than Washington, London, Berlin, or Stockholm.
I encouraged Singapore to establish a “nation-building” think tank to offer their insights to the rest of the world. The very small city-state without natural resources (other than in their people) have a great deal to teach the rest of us.”
Don
..
INTERNATIONAL / ASIA PACIFIC | September 2, 2007 Modern Singapore's Creator Is Alert to Perils
By SETH MYDANS and WAYNE ARNOLD
Lee Kuan Yew sees perils for the city-state's future in China's rise, the world economy and climate change.